You wrote:

While I understand Universal Law (or God Laws) do not usually run more than a sentence, there is a great deal of context necessary for them to be fully understood. There are at least 300 pages of what I would want you to read. So, to that end I will suggest some reading:

The Quabalah (Kabala, Kabalah: You can find it written many ways including Hermetic)

The Urantia Book

The Golden Dawn

Genesis - The Children of Toth

The context is the most important part, so start from the beginning. If you get it, great. If you don't maybe later.

I replied:

The Kabbalah... I have asked those much wiser than I their thoughts. (for I do not claim to be an expert on the subject.)

In the mean time... here is what little I know about Kabbalah:

Kabbalah was not written (making it very hard to read from the beginin')

Kabbalah is an oral tradition:

"When God passed down the written tradition, or the Torah, to Moses, the story of Kabbalah says that He also passed down an oral tradition, which was then passed down from generation to generation. This oral tradition became known by some as Kabbalah. And while the Torah served as a means of studying God's laws, Kabbalah became a set of practical techniques or rituals used to approach God."

This part I agree with it.

I also agree that it is very easy to approach God... however, a series of rituals is unnecessary, if not dangerous.

The original simple techniques have become littered with garbage over the years. In particular.... free masons... and hermetic movements have turned approaching god into a difficult process. Why?

In more recent times, it has turned into "cult" movements. (The word cult meaning you must be "brain washed" into believe things that do not make sense.)

This is because more recent movements have gone from approaching God... to making non-sensical statements and questions.... such as:

I. If God is good, why is there evil?

This is almost too silly to talk about hehehe... in that this Kabbalah question suggests the annihilation of god.

That is to say, good and evil are a pair.

so are
0 and 180 degrees
north and south
left and right

If you are one shoe in a pair, you are either the left or right... or is there another option? If you are not the left, nor the right shoe... what are you?

Thus, if you only have one shoe, you do not have a pair of shoes any more.

Soooo... if god = good

and you eliminate evil... how can there be good?

II. If the world is God, then why is it imperfect?

Who ever said the world is god?

The world can not be god (for even the religions from where this comes do not believe god is of an earthly form)

The world is neither perfect nor imperfect... it is does not make sense to talk about "the world" in these terms. The world is made up of many things. I happen to think the world is pretty good place. And, as far as planets go, I like it.

What is less than perfect most of the time... is man. The question should read:

If god is "beyond" the world, than why would she/he allow man to be imperfect? and that is an easy question to answer... freewill. We can chose to try to be perfect... like god. Or, we can chose to be lessor.

But, my question is... why do Kabbalahist ask these non-sensical / non-sensible questions?

Do they think that it will somehow help them approach god?

I think not. I suggest that it only clouds reality... and confuses.

The more time spent trying to approach god... the less time spent with god.


Here are some more thoughts on Kabbalah:

sidd--

heehee... there is a new book out .. that draws comparison between the Talmud and the internet ...


mike--

"the more time spent trying to approach god... the less time spent with god."

Kabbalah, kabbaloo,
just listen with your heart
your path stays true

each path is clear
no words are needed

not he nor she
but thee you see

is all one needs


don't try to delve into Kabballa or if you do... do not involve me. it is way way beyond any of us and if you try to understand it it will confuse you and cause you to make mistakes. Kabballa isn't mystical theoretical fun as a hobby its a very serious thing and I am not permitted to discuss it. So, I apologize I didn't read this e-mail but I really cant discuss this sort of thing

-Sarah


Rev. replied --

(I asked) what do you know of it?

more than casual

(I asked) anything?

the works
the whole show more and less and not
in words, mathematics, music, any language or not

we'll talk a little tomorrow on phone


I qualify myself--

When I said I am not an expert in Kabbalah, perhaps I should have qualified myself.

The essence of Kabbalah is something I am very familiar with, however; I am not expert on what has happened to it through most of history... I am not an expert on all the various sects, cults, etc.

... with the exception of Golden Dawn / W.B. Yeats

and, ouch!

I agree with Sarah:
as much as I hate to say stuff like this, do not read Yeats unless you have to... or put it on "the last books I'll ever read list."

If you call Yeats a philosopher, I'd say he is one of the worst ever -- I've yet to find a valid Yeats' argument.

Trying to make sense out of his non-sense is a self-defeating battle.

While in college, I was allowed to take a course on Ludwig Wittgenstein's "philosophical investigations." (I say allowed because a prerequisite was that you were a philosophy major ...which I was not.)

If you were to read something on this topic, I would suggest Wittgenstein (but, it is very difficult reading... so, I'll try to give ya the gist.)

Wittgenstein's language games, private language, etc. proved most Yeats' arguments invalid.

God is very difficult to talk about.

Wittgenstein's "ladder" has to do with climbing the ladder of understanding... and the limitations of language. (as in talking about god, you can climb closer and closer to "understanding" using language... but, you get to the end of the ladder... where there are no good words to say what you mean.)

Here is an example:

God is ___________.

To say this makes you a logical loser... by default... by definition. (This has little/nothing to do with whether the person believes in God. It is instead a logical necessity.)

If you say this... you will need to define god and is.

Defining god is beyond me... however, most people would agree on certain things... like... god is not of earthly form ("holy spirit" / "heavenly"). God is not a physical body. God can not be sensed with the 5 human senses. (That is to say, you can not taste, touch, see, hear or smell god.)

If you are to say much of anything else, you will need to produce/show god as proof.

Is? In this context "is" usually means there is existence of something. But, having just said that "god does not exist the way we know things to exist"... well... we would be unable to reconcile the contradiction in our language.

therefore;
if you say,

God is.
God exists.
God is love.
The world is God.
etc.

then, you have either contradicted yourself or spoken a private language. (and, Wittgenstein proved a private language to be impossible.)


sidd said:

part of the Talmud in translation
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm#t01

see also
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/tku/index.htm

for the Kabbalah,
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/gfp/gfp.htm

for Maimonides classic 'Guide to the Perplexed' actually .. all of http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/ and http://www.sacred-texts.com

is interesting...

and lets not even get into Hindu scripture....


I added:
here is an alternative translation I heard

On Your Way There

When,
You're on your way there,
Then,
You are still unaware,
Of the end you seek,
At least your view,
Is incomplete.

But,
What's neat...
There's a short cut just ahead,
An easier path, instead.

Why take the long road?
Why take the hard road?
Why beat a path uncharted?
Or, follow the bewildered,
The perplexed... dare I say,
Retarded?

Kabbalah.. ha... ha!
Your aim to self-defeat.

(Kabbalah says:)

Practice me none,
You should.

Use me not,
If you could.

A discipline...
To make the approach dwindle.

Kabbalah.. ha... ha!
To go ahead and meet,
Means your done,
It would.

Moments spent on you,
Hopefully... not a single.

For the more time spent approaching,
The less time for embracing.

I hope I've learnt ya good,
Thought I should,
Hoped I could...
Wow! Concluded.

Kabbalah, bye-bye.


Rev. followed-up:

I was gonna call you to talk about it...
but, I'm not qualified, but know enough about it
to seriously respect
and maybe after you engage in study contemplation meditation
with a fully qualified Kabalah master for several years
your commentary will have dignity

recipes

when you bake a chocolate cake
you use different ingredients
and different techniques
than if you barbecue ribs
directly channeled information
is different than study, contemplation, meditation
some of which includes years of acquired
directly channeled information as well as
scriptural and oral transmissions
pointed out by fully qualified spiritual guides
inner and outer
the result is hopefully the same
and some folks like vanilla and others like rosemary
and some people get off on e-stimuli
others want a lap dance

Reply:

Haven't we talked about this before?

Isn't it best when you move quickly through the practice of Kabalah?

Doesn't Kabalah say that it is just a means to the end... and, ideally you would not need Kabalah to get where you are going?

As for qualified masters, my favorite master is Her. Do you think she is qualified?

And, when you say dignity, whose words were you speaking of? The last piece was a translation directly from Her.

Then you said:

sorry
I know you have profound respect for
the many paths leading the "there"
my own investigation of the subject
led me to see it as a complete path to enlightenment
and even though I didn't take that specific walk for too long
I read many books and tried out many of the prescribed techniques
and tried to find living masters...

so
I no doubt misinterpreted your jesting
and wanted to let you know that I believe
if a person finds a true knowledge of Qabala
it is channeling "the her" directly

I ask the Rev. a side question: do you know how to spell Kabbalah? When you put it in google with one b it throws it back and asks if you mean, Kabbalah.

you replied:

it was explained to me
spelling
depends on your country
and on the religious proclivity describing it
one is Arab one is Hebrew one is (I forget... )
the Kabalists interpret the first word of the old testament
ah baw (ahbah) or something it's Hebrew
in the beginning to mean
the father the son the holy ghost
and
my understanding is that it's the mystical part of
all religions which go the whole way and
transcend the differences set up by those later ones
with smaller understanding...
the sufis the Kaballahh mystical Christianity and so on
I don't know how Hinduism and Buddhism fit that
because they are mystical unless you go to the straight
churches of those paths
I cant type any more
and yes
we have discussed all this
and
I didn't mean to challenge you
just to let you know kabbaallllaahhh is for real
and
I have to go out now
so
laters

Reply:

Thank you. Yes. I think we are in agreement.

a couple points --

1) I'm not so sure that most people actually chose to take a path. That is to say, it looks more like humans on a conveyer belt. Some humans decide to step off the belt. For some, it takes a while to step off. Some never step off... they just wait and fall of the end?

2) The problem I have with much of modern Kabbalah is that the "masters" have an incentive to help you fail. If a master were a "good" master, you wouldn't need to practice Kabbalah. Once a student sees how easy it is to approach Her, what need is there for a teacher? Unfortunately, too many teachers do it for money. And, they would much rather their students become addicted to them.

3) Jesting. What's up with Her sense of humor? Does everyone think she ain't got one? That last translation was directed at me. That is to say, if anyone was getting made fun of... it was me. Laughing at me seems to be quite enjoyable to many. hehehe

(speaking of which... what do you consider some of the easiest Kabbalah techniques? I've always found laughter to be a quick fix.

And, please do challenge me! ...even if it means ya end up laughing at me.)

Do you remember how Bullwinkle use to do it?

Eeny, Meeny, Jelly Beanie, the spirits are about to speak!
-- Bullwinkle Moose

4) what frustrates me... perhaps the most with modern Kabbalah... is how it has been turned into a one-way street. I wish everyone would master the approach in a hurry... cause what we bring back is even more important. But, I've yet to find another Kabbalahist that is "returning" instead of "approaching."

What is the purpose of Kabbalahists?

Are they just out for a joyride... or, is there a purpose for approaching God? Is it possible for the purpose to be a selfish one?

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